Angels are derived from the polar configuration

The Crescent-Arms
To terrestrial observers gazing up the axis-pillar, the Saturnian crescent appeared as two outstretched arms reaching
around and holding aloft the crescent enclosure .
No one considering the image of the sun-in-crescent resting atop the cosmic pillar will have any difficulty
understanding why the crescent came to be viewed as the outstretched arms of the great mother, or of the
heaven-sustaining god.
Of course, it is only in combination with the central sun and pillar that the crescent could acquire this
significance. Nothing in our crescent moon, for example, could possibly suggest the upraised arms of a humanlike
figure. In ancient art, however, the crescent is often located behind the shoulders of a divinity (as suggested
by the form ) and in certain cases replaces the arms. (In fig. 99 I offer several examples from the Americas.)
In fig. 100 the Hindu twins Jagan-Nath and Bal-Rama, bearing the respective black and white countenances of Shiva and Vishnu
(with whom they are identified), stand to the right and left of the goddess Subhadra, a form of Devi. The “body” of each of the three
deities appears to be composed of two eggs ([twofold] egg = “body”); upon the bodies of Jagan-Nath and Bal-Rama rests a crescentlike
form and in each crescent appears the head of the deity. Commenting on this image, Faber writes: “The crescent itself exhibits the
rude semblance of arms, as the twofold egg does that of a body: but a sort of standard attached to the frame on which the three
divinities are seated, sufficiently shows that the apparent arms are really a lunette, for the standard displays in a black background the
mystic crescent with a circular ball within it representing the head of the deity.”1461
99. (a, b) Columbian pictographs; (c) Bolivian pictograph; (d) Brazilian pictograph; (e) Arapahp sign for
“person”; (f) North American goddes
100. Hindu twins, Jagan-Nath and Bal-Rama, with semicircular arms, stand to the right and left of the
goddess Subhadra.
A more pure form of the crescent- or horned-arms occurs in Scandinavian rock drawings, repeatedly exhibiting
the image along with numerous variations which present the semi-circular shape alternately as horns or as
outstretched arms of more human-like forms (fig. 101). This mixture of images, in fact, leaves the archaeologists undecided
as to whether, in the simple form , it is arms, or horns, that are horn-like arms, or arms extended upward to form a
crescent. In other instances, the human figure does not stand in the boat, but holds the boat aloft on upraised arms (fig. 101a, b).
Moreover, in some cases the ship rests on the human shoulders in such a way as to replace the arms (fig. 101c, d).
101. (a, b, c, d) In numerous Scandinavian rock drawings the cosmic ship either rests on the upraised
arms of a Heaven Man or actually forms the god’s arms; (e, f) In other drawings from the same religion a pillared
crescent stands in the ship.
102. Prehistoric Egyptian images of the cosmic ship alternately show the Heaven Man (with upraised
arms) or the pillared crescent standing in the ship.
103. Predynastic Egyptian figurines
104. Cretan mother goddess
105. Symbols of the Phoenician goddess Tanit
106. Hittite image
The cosmic divinity with upraised arms will be found in all quarters of the world (figs. 103, 104, 105 & 106).
Most crucial are the associations of such figures with the axis-pillar and enclosure. The mythical Afrite of Arabian myth was an
apostate angel, “tall and black” (Saturn = “black” planet), whose trunk formed a vast pillar, his arms stretching heavenward.
Compare the description of the Hindu Manu, the “glorious sage” and first king: “With arms uplifted and poised on one leg,
he, the king of men, practiced hard austerities in the Badari forest, named Vishala. And there he did arduous penance for ten thousand
years with his head downwards and his eyes unwinking.”1462
Of the Iranian Mithra, the Zend Avesta declares: “With his arms lifted up towards Immortality, Mithra, the lord of wide pastures,
drives forward . . . in a beautiful chariot [the world wheel] that drives on, ever-swift, adorned with all sorts of ornaments, and made of
gold.”
I pose the question: are the upraised arms an accidental convention, or an integral component of the Saturnian
image ? A conclusive answer is provided by Egyptian sources.
The Ka-Arms
One of the most familiar Egyptian terms is ka, the symbol for which is two upraised arms . Though the word ka
occurs with great frequency in the hieroglyphic texts, few writers can agree on a tangible meaning. Budge
confesses the general lack of agreement on the subject: “The exact meaning of this word [ka] is unknown, but it has been
translated by double, image, genius, subconscious self, natural disposition, abstract personality, character, mind, etc.; all these
meanings are suggested by their contexts, but the real meaning of the word has yet to be discovered.”1463
“The closest approximation to the Egyptian notion of Ka is ‘vital force,’” writes Frankfort. “The qualification ‘vital’ frees it from the
precision of the natural sciences, which would, of course, be an anachronism: and the combination ‘vital force’ may stand for a
somewhat vague popular notion without mechanistic implications. The Ka, according to this view, should be impersonal and should
be present in varying strength in different persons or in the same person at different times.”1464
In none of the common interpretations is the Ka regarded as a visible power. Instead, the experts tend to treat the Ka as a
hidden source of life. Clark tells us that “the Ka is a symbol of the transmission of life power from the gods to man. But it is not only
the act, it is also the source of this power. Everyone is a receiver of divine power and everyone is an individual, so each has his own
Ka.”1465
I am not prepared to argue that these modern-sounding definitions are wholly wrong—only that they focus on
derived, rather than concrete meanings. In its original sense the Ka is exactly what its glyph indicates—two upraised arms
! The ancients saw the two arms of the Ka, and every aspect of the symbolism springs from a once visible
relationship of these arms to the great god and his dwelling.
In recording the Saturnian configuration nothing could have been more natural than the interpretation of the
crescent as two arms, straining upward. To present the “arms” in human form, is, of course, the only possible way to
express pictorially this mythical interpretation of the crescent (just as the only way to depict the crescent’s mythical form as horns was
to draw it as horns or to place the crescent-enclosure on the head of a Bull).
To test the proposed connection of the Ka-arms with the Saturnian image , several questions require
investigation:
Do Egyptian sources locate the central sun within the Ka-arms? Are the cosmic ship and horns identified with
these outstretched arms? Do the Ka-arms reach around the enclosure? Do the arms constitute the cleft summit
of the world mountain? Is the Ka one half of a twin circle?
107. (a) The Ka; (b) The Ka resting on the primordial “perch”; (c) The Ka embracing the royal “name.”
108. The arms of the Abyss supporting the “Aten.”
On each of these questions, Egyptian sources yield a clear-cut reply.
1. While most analyses discuss the Ka as a (hidden) dimension of the human personality, Egyptian sources
consistently locate the Ka not in this world, but among the gods. The point is noticed by Breasted: “ . . . The ka
was not an element of the personality, as is so often stated. It seems to me indeed from a study of the Pyramid Texts, that the nature of
the ka has been fundamentally misunderstood . . . It was in the world of the hereafter the he [the Ka] chiefly if not exclusively had his
abode . . .”1466
When the king dies “he goes to his Ka in the sky,”1467 and here, in heaven, the Ka protects him from the destructive
demons of Chaos.1468 But why is this protective genius portrayed as two outstretched arms ? The reason is
that the heaven attained by the deceased king is the dwelling of the central sun, who resides within the embrace
of two shining arms raised aloft in the Abyss. “This god is like this,” states one mythological text: “Two arms guard the body
of this god.”1469 Another invokes Atum shining forth from “the arms of Aker.”1470 The great god Re “is like this on the
arms of the Mysterious One.”1471 “The Aten is in the Tuat. The arms of the Mysterious Face come out and lift it up.”1472 reads
another text.
Thus Osiris “rests” within the two arms of the Ka: “Hail, O Osiris, thy ka hath come unto thee and . . . thou resteth therein in thy
name of Ka-Hetep.”1473 “Thy father Tatunen lifteth thee up and he stretcheth out his two hands behind thee.”1474
In truth, the saying “to go to his ka” means to attain heaven and thus to reside in the protective embrace of the heaven-sustaining
god .
O Re-Atum, your son comes to you, the King comes to you; raise him up, enclose him in your embrace . . .
1475
It is pleasant for me . . . within the arms of my father, within the arms of Atum.1476
O Atum, set your arms about the King . . . O Atum, set your protection over this King . . .1477
Go up on high, and it will be well with you, it will be pleasant for you in the embrace of your father, in the
embrace of Atum.1478
To represent the union of the king with the outstretched arms of heaven the Egyptians depicted the Ka
enclosing the cartouche or royal name of the Horus-king (fig. 107c). In the hieroglyphs the Ka-arms signify “to
embrace” and “to protect.” “The royal Ka put his arms around the Horus name to protect it from harm,” notes Clark. 1479 There is no
need to seek out hidden metaphysical implications in this symbolism, for the Ka was in every way an emblem
of the visible enclosure, the protective rampart in heaven.
2. That the Ka-arms pertain to the “embracing” crescent will explain why the sun-god sails on the two arms; the same text
which describes Re “like this on the arms of the Mysterious One,” declares, “This Great God sails over this cavern [the hollow of the
Tuat] on the arms of the Mysterious One.”1480
A spell from the Coffin Texts has the king appearing “in the bark of the morning . . . in the arms of Anup.”1481 And Osiris sails
“on the two arms of Horus in his [Horus’] name of ‘Henu-bark.’”1482 This equation of the ship and the outstretched arms finds
repeated illustration in the cosmic scenes depicted on coffins and papyri.
It follows from this identity, of course, that the arms of the Ka are synonymous with the luminous horns of
the celestial bull. And here lies the simple explanation why the Egyptian word for “bull” is also ka, written with the
same arms , to which the determinatives are added. (The subject is the generative Bull of
Heaven.)1483
I know the secret of Hieraconopolis.
It is the two hands of horns and what is in them.1484
The embracing hands or arms mean the same thing as the horns.
3. If the outstretched arms, as suggested by the configuration , reach around the circumpolar enclosure, then
“to go to his Ka” must signify the king’s rebirth in the primeval womb. Did the Egyptians identify the Ka-arms with the mother
goddess?
“When the dead king was placed in his coffin,” writes Piankoff, “he was placed between the arms of his mother Nut.”
1485 The king’s
return to the mother womb is expressed in the Pyramid Texts:
Thou art given to thy mother Nut, in her name coffin;
She embraces thee, in her name sarcophagus.1486
Nut, the “coffin,” means Nut, the womb of primeval birth (or rebirth). And to dwell in the womb is to reside within the embracing
arms of the goddess. Thus, the very goddess in whose womb shines the central sun is also described enclosing and protecting the sun,
or king, with outstretched arms.
I am thy mother Nut. My arms encircle thee in life and health.1487
The arms of Nut who bore you are about you so that your beauty may be upraised.1488
Words spoken by Isis the Divine:
I have come, I encircle my son with my arms . . . I shall be his protection eternally.1489
. . . The goddess Maat embraceth thee.1490
109. Nut embracing the Aten with outstretched arms.
In apparent defiance of nature, the texts proclaim that the Ka-arms give birth to the sun-god. The Pyramid Texts extol
“the Great One who came into being in the arms of Her who bore the god.”1491 In the Instruction of Ptahhotep appears the statement,
“He is thy son, whom thy Ka hath begotten for thee.”1492 And elsewhere we read: “Thy mother bringeth thee forth upon her
hands, that thou mayest give light to the whole circumference which the Aten enlighteneth.”1493
In the tomb of Tut-Ankh-Amon appear four gold coffins containing the extracted viscera, each coffin being
represented by a goddess, and symbolically enclosing one of the Four Sons of Horus. The inscriptions upon the
lids of the coffins leave no doubt as to the identity of the enclosing arms and the protective womb:
Words spoken by Isis: I close my arms over that which is in me. I protect Imesty who is in me, Imesty, Osiris
King Neb-Kheperu-Re, justified before the Great God.
Words spoken by Nephthys: I embrace with my arms that which is in me, I protect Hapy of Osiris King NebKheperu-Re,
justified before the Great God.
Words spoken by Neith: I encircle with my arms that which is in me, I protect Dua-mutef who is in me, Duamutef,
Osiris King Neb-Kheperu-Re, justified before the Great God.
Words spoken by Selkit: My two arms are on what is in me. I protect Keb-senuf who is in me, Keb-senuf,
Osiris King Neb-Kheperu-Re, the justified one.1494
The inscriptions explicitly declare that the arms of the goddess enclose the god-king within the womb. That the
goddess (womb) is the arms, and that these arms are those of the Ka, is confirmed by a design in the funerary temple of King Seti I
(fig. 110). The design shows a female figure embracing the king. On the head of the goddess stands the two arms of the Ka within
which is written the goddess’ name.
1495
In depicting the Ka, Egyptian artists were obviously constrained by the awkwardness which would result from
the human-like representation of the image as a man-child within the arms of a god or goddess. In our world
one does not embrace a child with uplifted arms. To accommodate the primal image to a natural anthropomorphic mode of
representation, the artists showed the arms twice—first, as the arms of the human, or personified Ka, embracing and protecting the
man-child; and second, as upraised arms placed upon the head of the Ka-divinity. It is the latter representation which expresses the
cosmic form of the protective embrace.
Hence, the goddess Isis, often depicted enclosing her son Horus upon her lap (womb), is also shown standing
erect with arms held aloft (fig. 111). Since the uplifted arms, by Egyptian symbolism, mean
110. The divinized Ka embraces the man-child
111. The Egyptian goddess Isis, whose upraised arms enclosed the central sun.
“protect” and “embrace,” one can be certain that the raised arms of Isis pertain directly to Isis’ role as the “protectress” of the sungod.
Cosmic symbolism was not determined by what is “natural” in the human world so much as by the literal form of the Saturn
apparition .
The outstretched arms of the Egyptian great god or goddess hold aloft and encircle the celestial earth.
O King, you have enclosed every god within your arms, their lands and all their possessions. O King, you are
great and round as the circle which surrounds the Hau-nebut.
1496
The earth is raised on high under the sky by your arms, O Tefenet.1497
An identical picture occurs in the Iranian Zend Avesta, where Mithra, “with arms lifted up towards immortality,” encloses
“the boundary of the earth.”
And do thou, O Mithra! encompassing all this around, do thou reach it, all over, with thy arms.1498
Pointing to the same relation is the common Egyptian phrase “house of the Ka.”1499 To dwell in the cosmic temple
is to rest within the arms, and the texts thus speak of “the two arms of the temple.”1500
4. Among the Egyptian gods none is more often depicted with upraised arms than the pillar-god Shu, between
whose arms rests the primeval sun Atum, or Re. Egyptian reliefs regularly portray Shu standing erect and
sustaining the body (womb) of the goddess Nut with his arms held in virtually the same position of those of the
Ka-symbol . The arms which enclose the sun-god belong to the cosmic mountain. Thus we read:
The mountain will hold out its arms to him and the living Ka’s will accompany him.1501
The hieroglyphic symbol of the Shu-pillar or mountain is called “the two pillars of heaven.” The two pillars, in other
words, are really one pillar, with two arms. Hence Re, who shines between the mountain peaks of the right and left, also rests atop the
forked pillar of Shu, whose two secondary supports are the embracing arms of the Ka. “Thou seest Re upon the pillars which are the
arms of heaven,” reads the Book of the Dead.
1502
In the Papyrus of Mut-hetep the embracing arms are those of Tatunen, the acknowledged personification of the
Primeval Hill. “Thy father Tatunen, placing his hands behind thee, raiseth thee up.”1503 What are these two arms of the
Primeval Hill other than the two peaks of the right and left?
Most relevant in this connection is the hieroglyphic symbol for “living Re” . The image not only shows the
sun-god resting within the upraised Ka-arms, but presents the arms as an extension of the heavens pillar, so that
the entire configuration suggests a human form virtually identical to that of Shu in the above-mentioned
illustrations. The same image in yet more human form is offered by the hieroglyph , symbol of the
elevated god and the cosmic summit. And in the glyph the Egyptians depicted the personified pillar
holding aloft the symbol of heaven . What is clear from a survey of the related texts and symbols is that
the Egyptians conceived the arms of the Mount or god in visible terms. When the king, in a Pyramid Text,
beseeches the god, “O Shu, may your two arms be behind Teti,” one witnesses the influence of things seen, not abstract speculation.
In the signs , , and , we have three closely related ways of representing the prototypal form , and it
is this prototype which enables one to see why the Egyptians celebrated the Ka-arms as the two peaks of the Mount
of Glory. The Ka-sign and the mountain sign gave pictorial expression to two equally compelling
interpretations of the pillared crescent. Once one perceives this underlying identity of the arms and the twofold
peak, it is impossible not to notice that the Egyptians themselves remembered the connection through many
centuries (even if they did not understand it perfectly). Repeatedly the artists showed two arms extended
upward from the cleft peak (fig. 112). As is usually the case with the most significant symbolic relationships, the union of the
arms and two peaks is set forth in spite of its seeming mockery of the natural order.
112. Kheprer, residing in the Aten, appears between the two arms, which correspond to the two peaks of the Khut.
The equivalence of the Ka-arms and two peaks is confirmed by other symbols also. One of the Egyptian names
of the twofold Mount of Glory was Aker, drawn as a twin-headed lion .
1504 Just as the Aten rests on the two
peaks of the Khut , so also does it lie on the “back of Aker.” In one text the sun-god Re commands Aker, “O, give me your
arms, receive me . . . I give light for you, I dispel your darkness.” 1505 The arms of Aker can be nothing other than the two
peaks from which the sun-god shines forth each day, for the Book of Caverns says that the “One of the Tuat goes forth
[shines] from the arms of Aker.”1506 The same source also invokes:
Duati, the Infernal One, who comes out of the arms of Aker.1507 Atum, who comes out of the arms of Aker. Ifeny, who
comes out of the arms of Aker.1508
Though the terminology will offend the modern ear, it is perfectly consistent with the cosmic image to
speak of the “two arms of the mountain,” and this is exactly what the Egyptians meant by the phrase “the arms of Aker.”
5. It remains to be asked, then, what was the relationship of the crescent-arms to the cosmic twins. Certainly
one cannot ignore the fact that the Egyptian ka is often translated “double” or “twin.” “The ka of the king is his
twin; it accompanies him through life as a protective genius, it acts as his twin and his protector in death.”1509
The imagery of the king has its origin in the image of the Universal Monarch. If the arms depicted by the Ka
sign refer to the Saturnian crescent, reaching halfway around the circumpolar enclosure, this in itself is
sufficient to explain the Ka’s designation as the “twin.” In the configuration the twin (or half the enclosure) is the two
arms.
In accord with the counterpoised positions of the revolving crescent ( and , or and ), Egyptian
representations of the arms show alternating relationships to the central sun. While the upright position of the
arms is very common in Egyptian art, one finds innumerable instances in which the arms embrace the Aten either
from the right or left, or from above. Of the latter instance I give three examples (figs. 87, 113, 114). Like so many Egyptian
representations, all of these examples juxtapose different mythical versions of the crescent. In the first (fig. 81) we see the man-child
sitting upon the mountain symbol and resting within the enclosure of the Aten, here presented as a circular serpent with
tail in mouth. This circle, in turn, rests upon the horns of a bull whose head is placed between the twin lions Shu and Tefnut,
representing the peaks of the right and left. But reaching around half of the serpentine band from above are two arms—clearly the
same arms which elsewhere embrace the Aten from below.
113, 114. To depict the full cycle of the “day” Egyptian artists showed the outstretched arms embracing the Aten

 

Giants are derived from the Polar Configuration

Giants

Moderators: MGmirkinbboyer

 

Giants

Unread postby Total Science » Tue May 05, 2009 1:06 pm

Image

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." -- Genesis 6:4

"And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight." -- Numbers 13:31

"Yet destroyed I the Amorite before them, whose height was like the height of the cedars, and he was strong as the oaks; yet I destroyed his fruit from above, and his roots from beneath." -- Amos 2:9

"These were the strongest generation of earth-born mortals, the strongest, and they fought against the strongest, the beast men living within the mountains, and terribly they destroyed them. I was in the company of these men....'" -- Homeros, poet, Iliad, Book I

"...a lordship...is the government which is declared by Homer to have prevailed among the Cyclopes." -- Plato, philosopher, Laws: Book III, 360 B.C.

"The sculptures carved above the pillars refer either to the birth of Zeus and the battle between the gods and the giants, or to the Trojan war and the capture of Ilium." -- Pausanias, geographer, Description of Greece: Argolis

"There still remain, however, parts of the city wall [of Mycenae], including the gate, upon which stand lions. These, too, are said to be the work of the Cyclopes, who made for Proetus the wall at Tiryns." -- Pausanias, geographer, Description of Greece: Argolis

"There is also an ancient sanctuary called the altar of the Cyclopes, and they sacrifice to the Cyclopes upon it." -- Pausanius, geographer, Desciption of Greece: Argolis, 2nd century

Image

"This is the city which is mentioned in Scripture as Baalath in the vicinity of the Lebanon, which Solomon built for the daughter of Pharaoh. The place is constructed with stones of enormous size." -- Benjamin of Tudela, geographer, 1160

"When we compare the ruins of Baalbek with those of many ancient cities which we visited in Italy, Greece, Egypt, and in other parts of Asia (and Africa), we cannot help thinking them to be the remains of the boldest plan we ever saw attempted in architecture. Is it not strange then, that the age and the undertaker of the works, in which solidity and duration have been so remarkably consulted, should be a matter of such obscurity...?" -- Robert Wood, geographer/archaelogist, 1757

"The ancients possessed a plasma cosmology and physics themselves, and from laboratory experiments, were well familiar with the patterns exhibited by Peratt's petroglyphs." -- Joseph P. Farrell, author, 2007
Total Science
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:10 am

Re: Giants

Unread postby Total Science » Tue May 05, 2009 1:11 pm

Image

http://www.varchive.org/itb/giants.htm

The traditions of peoples all over the world are quite unanimous in asserting that an an earlier time a race of giants lived on the earth, that most of the race were destroyed in great catastrophes; that they were of cruel nature and were furiously fighting among themselves; that the last of them were exterminated when after a cataclysm a migration of peoples brought the forebears of the peoples of today to their new homelands. 

The Japanese narrate that when their forefathers after a great catastrophe about two and a half or three thousand years ago, came from the continent and invaded the isles, they found there long-legged, furry giants. These giants were called Ainu. The forefathers of the Japanese were defeated in the first encounter, but in the second encounter they were victorious. 

Ixtlilxochitl described the wandering of peoples of the western hemisphere in the four ages of the world. The first age came to its end in the Flood. In the second age, called “the sun of the earthquake,” there lived the generation of the giants, which was destroyed in the cataclysm that terminated this age. The third period was “the sun of the wind,” called so because at the end of this period terrible hurricanes annihilated everything. The new inhabitants of the new world were Ulme and Xicalauca who came from the east to find a foothold at Potouchan: here they met a number of giants, the last survivors of the second catastrophe. The fourth age was called “the fire sun,” because of the great fire that put an end to this epoch. At that time the Toltecs arrived in the land of Anahuac, put to flight by the catastrophe: they wandered for 104 years before they settled in their new home. 

Also F. L. Gomara in his Conquista de Mexico, in the chapter about “cinco soles que son edades,” wrote: 

The second sun perished when the sky fell upon the earth; the collapse killed all the people and every living thing; and they say that giants lived in those days, and that to them belong the bones that our Spaniards have found while digging mines and tombs. From their measure and proportion it seems that those men were twenty hands tall—a very great stature, but quite certain.(1)

Image

"The ancients possessed a plasma cosmology and physics themselves, and from laboratory experiments, were well familiar with the patterns exhibited by Peratt's petroglyphs." -- Joseph P. Farrell, author, 2007
Total Science
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:10 am

Re: Giants

Unread postby Kapriel » Tue May 19, 2009 8:02 am

What interests me about the Giants of ancient legends is that no matter which country you get the story from, they are all agreed on the peculiarly murderous character of this race, and that while they were fairly successful in murdering one another, they were relatively easily beat by those of other, smaller races. Even the Titans-myth attests to the superior power of the smaller, younger generation of "gods". 

I don't believe these giants of myth and legend were real men. There are giant bones buried here and there, to be sure, and it's possible there were races of taller people from time to time, but the myths about giants must refer to celestial events (especially since they are linked to cataclysms), or else they refer to the tall figures epitomized by cave art and statues such as those on Easter Island...or if not from the same period of time as those, than from an earlier. A common detail of these myths was that these giants could not reproduce themselves without stealing women from the smaller races, and they were not known to have women at all among their own race. As we all know, this is biologically impossible. The theme of one god abducting a female from elsewhere is common in mythology, particularly among the Greeks, and has its genesis in celestial goings-on, just as every other myth does. 

A final detail of these giants-myths that comes to mind is that they were not above eating each other, or other human beings. This, also, is a common feature of the myths derived from celestial events. (Cronus ate his children, for instance). Cultural commonalities across the world tells me this is part of the world-myth, not part of real history. Probably any real races of giants that might have periodically cropped up on the earth were feared and persecuted into extinction by any group that found them, and all because they were thought to be the evil, murderous race of legend. I imagine the same would have happened to any group that had some feature assoociated with myth, such as pronounced cannine teeth, for instance, because of their resemblance to vampires.

The story of Joshua and his scouts encountering a land of giants is interesting in that it includes giant-sized natural foods growing there as well as giant sized people. I wonder if any portion of that tale could be true. Certainly if it had been, the Israelits would have cultivated the grapes they found there, and taken this gene pool of fabulous fruits with them...but they didn't. Strange, I thought.

Doubt is not proof.
User avatar
Kapriel
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:17 pm

Re: Giants

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Tue May 19, 2009 1:33 pm

Hi Kapriel,
You are conflating too many 'giants'. The Titans, for example, are a separate group from the Gigantes. Also one should not read myths etc literally. The ancients did not write the way we do but used symbology which was/is best understood from the perspective of an altered state of consciousness, e.g. meditation. Chronos did not literally eat literal children. And, in any case, he later regurgitated them.
Do you have a reference for the giant food in Joshua?
If I have the least bit of knowledge 
I will follow the great Way alone 
and fear nothing but being sidetracked. 
The great Way is simple 
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
Grey Cloud
 
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Re: Giants

Unread postby Total Science » Tue May 26, 2009 9:53 am

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 170641.htm

Using such diverse sources as old ship logs, literary texts, tax accounts, newly translated legal documents and even mounted trophies, Census researchers are piecing together images - some flickering, others in high definition - of fish of such sizes, abundance and distribution in ages past that they stagger modern imaginations.

They are also documenting the timelines over which those giant marine life populations declined.

For example, Census scientists say the size of freshwater fish caught by Europeans started shrinking in medieval times.

"The ancients possessed a plasma cosmology and physics themselves, and from laboratory experiments, were well familiar with the patterns exhibited by Peratt's petroglyphs." -- Joseph P. Farrell, author, 2007
Total Science
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:10 am

Re: Giants

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Tue May 26, 2009 10:39 am

Hi Total Science,
Here's a link to a BBC story related to your Science Daily thing:
Study unlocks history of the seas 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8058351.stm
If I have the least bit of knowledge 
I will follow the great Way alone 
and fear nothing but being sidetracked. 
The great Way is simple 
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
Grey Cloud
 
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Re: Giants

Unread postby Total Science » Thu May 28, 2009 3:31 pm

Thx Grey Cloud.

Image

"These were the strongest generation of earth-born mortals,
the strongest, and they fought against the strongest, the beast men
living within the mountains, and terribly they destroyed them.
I was in the company of these men....'"
-- Homeros, poet, Iliad, Book I: 247-269, 8th century

"Such was Aias as he strode gigantic, the wall of the Achaians,
smiling under his threatening brows, with his feet beneath him
taking huge strides forward, and shaking the spear far-shadowing.
And the Argives looking upon him were made glad, while the Trojans
were taken every man in the knees with trembling and terror,
and for Hektor himself the heart beat hard in his breast, but he could not
any more find means to take flight and shrink back into
the throng of his men, since he in his pride had called him to battle.
Now Aias came near him, carrying like a wall his shield
of bronze and sevenfold ox-hide which Tychios wrought him with much toil;
Tychios, at home in Hyle, far the best of all workers in leather
who had made him the great gleaming shield of sevenfold ox-hide
from strong bulls, and hammered an eighth fold of bronze upon it.
Telamonian Aias, carrying this to cover
his chest, came near to Hektor and spoke to him in words of menace:
'Hektor, single man against single man you will learn now
for sure what the bravest men are like among the Danaans."
-- Homeros, poet, Iliad, Book VII, 212-227, 8th century B.C. 

"As told by Huaman Poma, five such ages had preceded that in which he lived. The first was an age of Viracochas, an age of gods, of holiness, of life without death, although at the same time it was devoid of inventions and refinements; the second was an age of skin-clad giants, the Huari Runa, or 'Indigenes,' worshippers of Viracocha; third came the age of Puron Runa, or 'Common Men,' living without culture; fourth, that of Auca Runa, 'Warriors,' and fifth that of the Inca rule, ended by the coming of the Spaniards." -- Hartley B. Alexander, historian, 1920

"The ancients possessed a plasma cosmology and physics themselves, and from laboratory experiments, were well familiar with the patterns exhibited by Peratt's petroglyphs." -- Joseph P. Farrell, author, 2007
Total Science
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:10 am

Re: Giants

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu May 28, 2009 4:12 pm

Hi Total Science,
Here's a couple of alternate translations of the lines from Bk 1 of the Iliad:

And the enemies they fought against were strong,
the mightiest of all the mountain centaurs. 
But they destroyed those creatures totally.
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Texts/Iliad/iliad1.htm

These were the mightiest men ever born upon this earth: mightiest were they, and when they fought the fiercest tribes of mountain savages they utterly overthrew them.
http://classics.mit.edu/Homer/iliad.1.i.html

My own copy of the Iliad says 'savage beasts'. No giants here.

As to the passage about Aias, he is just a very big guy. He features throughout the Iliad and is one of my favourite characters. He is the son of Telemon a regular mortal. Aias' 7-fold oxhide and bronze shield is no different than anyone elses apart from its size.

Just for good measure here's a link to the Cyclopes page at theoi.com:
http://www.theoi.com/Gigante/GigantesKyklopes.html
And, just to repeat, don't read it too literally. ;)

If I have the least bit of knowledge 
I will follow the great Way alone 
and fear nothing but being sidetracked. 
The great Way is simple 
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
Grey Cloud
 
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Re: Giants

Unread postby Total Science » Sat May 30, 2009 4:53 pm

Grey Cloud wrote:Hi Total Science,
Here's a couple of alternate translations of the lines from Bk 1 of the Iliad:

And the enemies they fought against were strong,
the mightiest of all the mountain centaurs. 
But they destroyed those creatures totally.
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Texts/Iliad/iliad1.htm

These were the mightiest men ever born upon this earth: mightiest were they, and when they fought the fiercest tribes of mountain savages they utterly overthrew them.
http://classics.mit.edu/Homer/iliad.1.i.html

My own copy of the Iliad says 'savage beasts'. No giants here.

Hi Grey Cloud. The word Homer uses is φηρσίν which does not mean centaur. That is a mistranslation.

And, just to repeat, don't read it too literally.

Why not? ;)

"The ancients possessed a plasma cosmology and physics themselves, and from laboratory experiments, were well familiar with the patterns exhibited by Peratt's petroglyphs." -- Joseph P. Farrell, author, 2007
Total Science
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:10 am

Re: Giants

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Sat May 30, 2009 6:37 pm

Hi Total Science,

And, just to repeat, don't read it too literally.
Why not?

Because Homer uses allegory, metaphor, simile, etc. The literal (exoteric) story is for the sheeple. And what does 'φηρσίν' mean if not centaur? In any case, my point was that none of them suggest a race of giant people.

If I have the least bit of knowledge 
I will follow the great Way alone 
and fear nothing but being sidetracked. 
The great Way is simple 
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
Grey Cloud
 
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Re: Giants

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:18 pm

A 17 minute TEDx presentation by Jim Vieira, a stone mason who has spent 20 years researching the stones and mounds and Giant skeletons found around north America, and dating back thousands of years. He found, as did I a few years back, that the Smithsonian collected, examined, and then seemingly has hidden away any information on these Giants. They don't fit the academically accepted and taught history of America, so hide them and hope nobody catches on.
Stone Builders, Mound Builders and the Giants of Ancient America
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELu9ARLo0jc
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller